Cannot receive emails via IMAP on Mac Mini's Mail (Apple Mail)

It sounds like from what you've been told the issue likely lies with the Mac Mail client on the mini as how it works with the phone.  IMAP doens't do push and relies on the mail client to periodically check for email updates.  I would suggest asking them again if there is a way to setup the email on the Mac Mini to behave more like the iPhone.

Could you also verify what versions of Mac Mail and Mac OS X you're using as well?

I am running OSX 10.8.4, and the version of Mail is 6.5 (1508).

I don't think I was clear enough about what the Apple Mail support person told me. He said that what is happening is that the IDLE option is being forced on for all Mac Mail configurations. In IDLE mode, the client is continuously connected to the mail server and the mail server pushes incoming emails immediately to the client. There is no waiting for the client to query the server at a set frequency, say every 5 minutes. The server sends it as soon as it gets it.

And all would be well if COX supported the IDLE mode for IMAP, but apparently COX does not. So the Mac client is waiting in a configuration for mails to arrive but the COX server doesn't send them on its own. like it should if IDLE were working.

If we could take the client out of IDLE mode, things would probably work okay - IDLE is not required for IMAP to work. But when you configure a Mac Mail client for COX IMAP, the box for the option "Use IDLE command if the server supports it" is checked and the whole option is greyed out. So you can't change it and therefore you are stuck in IDLE mode. This does not happen with all email clients connecting via COX IMAP, but it does happen with every Mac Mail client. or so I am told.

I imagine there must be hundreds of Mac Mail users on COX now who have this issue, although the rollout of IMAP is so new, my posting seems to be the first one on this forum. If anyone else is having this issue, please chime in.

Rob.

First, just to be clear, your using IMAP for Imap.cox.net on a Residential Internet connection yes? I am assuming this isn't business related. To be honest I didnt know Cox had IMAP on the Home side.

The Mac Mail Client is horrid. Its one of the reasons Thunderbird has become so popular over the years, because just like PC users immediately change browsers, Mac users (in the know) switch email clients. I know this doesn't solve your problem, but it should me noted. There are alot of free email Apps for the Ipad.

More to your OP, is Idle mode greyed out during the config Wizard or at all times. Try to go in and disable after?

1. Select "Mail | Preferences..." from the menu.
2. Choose "Accounts".
3. Select the desired IMAP account.
4. Go to the "Advanced" tab.
5. Make sure to uncheck "Use IDLE command if the server supports it".

 If it won't let you pass the wizard, maybe try setting it up with a Gmail account and then go in and disable Idle and change the IMAP and SMTP settings? Also I found this interesting thread. Note that even when it works, its buggy, though that may have been patched by now.

http://hints.macworld.com/article.php?story=20080811071447172 

COX just made IMAP available to Residential customers a few weeks ago. In fact, it may be, and I am hoping, that this problem is due to the fact that Cox just rolled this out for us non-Business people and that they missed something in the process. 

When I go to the Advanced Tab, the IDLE option is checked and greyed out. You can't get to it.

I did try the suggestion that was in your link to fake an account with a false email address, which gets you out of the Wizard. Then I was able to set up a real account without the IDLE checked.  Eagerly I awaited the immediate arrival of a test email.

It didn't work. So now I question whether Apple is correct when they say this is a matter of getting the client to have its IDLE option unchecked. Because thanks to you I have done it, and I still can't get incoming mail unless I take the account offline then online.

I was wondering whether that was the problem because I noticed that Outlook for Mac works with COX IMAP whether or not you check the IDLE command.

So now I am going to go back to my support person at Apple and report this behavior.

Either way, I have to believe that there are many Mac users out there using Mac Mail who thought that they could now get IMAP via COX - but still cannot. The other aspects of IMAP work fine...so I'd like to stick with it and hope they'll fix it soon.

Rob

So let me restate some facts and questions to flesh out the problem.

1. Problem is with receiving, no problem sending. This rules out account, user/password,etc.
2. Problem is specific Push functionality. The emails download if you enable/disable. This rules out Basic IMAP/SMTP settings.
   1. Could you give more information on when you said: "He said that what is happening is that the IDLE option is being forced on for all Mac Mail configurations." Do you mean Cox is forcing or Apple is forcing?
   2. Did Apple provide you, or show you how to find, any error report from the Ipad Mini email client?
   3. Do you have SSL enabled on IMAP? If so, what port does it default to?
3. Problem is with Ipad Mini only, works on Desktop Outlook and Iphone Mac Mail, even with Idle both on/off. This rules out basic IMAP implementation.
   1. Is your Ipad Mini Wifi only or Wifi/Cellular?
   2. If Wifi/Cellular, what carrier?
   3. What firmware/software version is it using? Have you tried updating it?
   4. Are there any other different/new/missing Options between Ipad Mini client and Outlook for Mac?
      
      

I have a feeling the problem may be the "Idle Mode" box doesn't force Idle, it just allows it if the server is capable. This is similar to their SSL implementation, so that would make sense. Now if Apple says (and correct me if I am misquoting) that they are forcing Idle, it would make sense that their latest product would disable the "Idle Mode" option because it is being forced. Its also possible Cox has purposely not implemented Idle mode because of the additional bandwidth it would consume on the server. As you said though, it could just be something they have disabled until they have the server running on full load. If that is the case, I have 2 ideas, but I have put myself out onto a pretty long hypothetical branch, so I tend to want to wait on a official Cox statement. But since I am a nerd...

1.  Does Apple's Cloud service force Idle if you sync your Cox Imap account with it? And then just load that account via the cloud onto the Ipad Mini. Warning though; I have seen this cause other problems, but its worth a try.

2. Have you tried another Ipad Mini Email app? If all your accounts are Gmail, I would try the Gmail App. If not, but all your accounts are Imap, try the Incredimail App. Also "Mailbox" seems to be a popular one, but there doesn't seem to be a Ipad specific App, only Iphone. Also it seems they don't support POP3. ::Le sigh::

To answer your questions, Trikein,

First of all, I am talking about problems with my two Mac Mini's, mine and my wife's. The iPad and iPhone mail works fine.

The Apple Mail support person implied that Cox was forcing the creation of IMAX accounts that were automatically set to use the iDLE mode. You cannot normally uncheck that mode because it is grayed out.

However, taking a hint from one of the links above, I was able to create an Apple Mail account that did NOT have the IDLE mode checked - and I still have the problem. Also, I note that Outlook for Mac works with IDLE on as well as off. 

So I am not sure if either I did not understand the Apple person as to what their diagnosis was, or they are simply incorrect. I have another call in to Apple pointing out my findings and asking for clarification from their engineers. 

I'd like to stay away from putting either iCloud into the picture or other mail clients - I really want this to work with Apple Mail. My wife is used to it from her iPhone and iPad.

What i'd really like to see here is someone from COX stepping up and talking about this issue. It seems to me pretty major if Mac users can't use Mac Mail properly when connected to COX's new IMAP offering. Especially since now when create a new email account, it assumes you want IMAP and that's what you get. POP is no longer the default option.

Rob from AZ

Ahh ok, when you said Mac Mini I thought you were talking about a Ipad Mini and using the wrong word. The exact same account works fine with the Outlook client, but not the Mac client yes? That alone rules out Cox. But then on top of that you tried another, non Cox Imap email, with Mac mail and it also didn't work. It sounds like Apple's mail is Forcing Idle mode, something Cox's Imap does not support. You even have Apple confirming this when you talked to their engineer. So we know what the problem is.

I see you have 3 options.

1. Try to either get, or wait until, Cox's Imap support Idle mode.

2. Use a non Cox email.

3. Use a Non Mac Client. Like Thunderbird.

I have had personal experience with helping my mom setup email on the Mac Mail client for iOS and I loath it. It downloaded all her email off the server even if I specifically told it to leave a copy. Would only happen on first sync. Any additional email I sent, it would download and leave on server, but first sync it downloaded it all, making it impossible to download onto her PC. Other then resend 2000 emails to herself, there was nothing we could do.

And thinking about it, I think I know of a really good reason why they don't enable Idle Mode. I don't know if its the actual reason, but it makes sense. Usually with any other email account, you have to either pick POP or IMAP. That is because with most other IMAP, that Idle mode creates a constant connection with the email server, keeping other clients from requesting mail via Pop. Think of the email server like a phone number, if you call it and keep the line busy, anyone else calling it will get a busy signal. Maybe thats why Cox disabled it, because they know the majority of people wanting to use IMAP will already have that account set up for Pop, and if they enabled Idle Mode, the customer setting up Imap would be breaking their email. However that very fact may give us a work around. Have you tried setting up her account on the Mac Mini with Pop?

So Cox has several valid possible reasons, to conserve bandwidth (which they cap) and to create broader compatibility. What reason does Mac give for requiring Idle? Sounds like its Apple being stubborn and forcing something upon their user base because they think they know best. This is common with Apple and why I try to stay away from their software. But thats just my 2 cents.
 

I am having the same problem as you, Rob,  except I am using an iMac also running OSX 10.8.4 (Mountain Lion) and the same Apple mail program. I can send mail, but not receive any without either closing the mail program or going offline and then back again. My Cox mail worked fine for about two weeks on this new iMac.

I have another iMac running OSX 10.7.4 (Lion) and I set up my IMAP Cox email on it to see what would happen. It also would not receive any mail.  What is interesting is that my wife's Cox email account that was set up as a POP account last year on this same iMac (running Lion), receives and sends mail without a problem.

Apple has acknowledged this problem with some IMAP Cox accounts set up using Apple Mail. Cox claims there isn't any problem. The Apple representative told me that there may be a solution to solve this problem with Cox. He said to call Cox and ask Cox to reset the account and password internally, with their server. Not what you can do by going online. He said that this has helped some people he has spoken to with this same email problem. I have not done this yet.

Another solution is to set up a gmail account, add it to Apple Mail and have all your Cox mail forwarded into it. You will find the settings to forward mail in Cox Webmail, message settings. This does work as a work-around solution. Another work-around solution is to add a Go Offline button to your Apple Mail toolbar. (This button is in customize toolbar. Just drag it to the toolbar).  Click it to go offline, then click it again to go online and your new mail will be received. 

I agree that this is a problem that needs a solution.

Jerry from VA

The solution is for Apple not to force Idle mode. The people running the server should make the call on how to implement certain things, not the company making the software. 

And what malarkey is "resetting the password internally". I think thats basically Apple saying they believe some of the problems is user error. Not in this case of course, but I just find it funny. Sounds like a Snake Oil fix to me.

With that said those are good workarounds. The forwarding doesn't quite work because Gmail doesn't allow proxy. Maybe have Gmail as incoming and Cox SMTP as outgoing, but you would have to set it to use username/password on outgoing. This might cause some problem with attachments and Spam so it isn't a perfect solution. Still pretty decent though.

I just want to hear Apples reasoning for forcing Idle. It wasn't something they forced with previous versions, that is why the option is there in the first place. 

Hi all,

Trikein, I need to correct some misunderstandings. First, I had not tried to run Mac Mail with a non-COX email account when you stated that I had. But when you did say it, I realized I needed to do that.

So I set up a Gmail IMAP account on in my Mac Mail client. And it worked perfectly. Not only that, but it worked in both IDLE and non-IDLE mode exactly as it was supposed to. That is, when I set it to IDLE mode, the emails arrived instantly, having been pushed from Gmail to me. When I set it to non-IDLE, the emails only came when either I manually hit the send/receive button, or I allowed the Mac to automatically query the Gmail IMAP account every 5 minutes.

So the Apple Mac Mail client does play well with Gmail when using IMAP. It just doesn't play well with Cox. 

The other misunderstanding, and this is my fault, is that this has to do with the IDLE setting. In spite of what Apple told me, I don't think it;s about that, since I have the same problem with COX when I manage to manually set the client to non-IDLE. It is not that Apple is trying to force IDLE - it's that neither IDLE OR non-IDLE works with Cox. But it does work with Gmail on both counts.

So, as JC pointed out, Apple is at least admitting there is an issue, but I can find no one yet at Cox, either on forums like this or when I email them or when I call them, that admits there is an issue. Admitting there is an issue does not mean that your company is the culprit - but it does at least show you are paying attention. I know Apple is not perfect, but I don't find enough evidence yet that the problem is entirely of their own making. I am waiting on an Apple Senior Adviser right now who is checking with their engineers,who are supposed to be talking to Cox about this issue.

JC: Thank you for providing another example so I know I'm not the only COX user experiencing this. Interestingly you are in Virginia while I am in Arizona. Did they just make IMAP available to you too? By the way, it is known that the POP protocol works. IMAP is more complex but offers more functionality in return. 

I will try the fix suggested to JC by Apple, although it seems doubtful to me as well that that will work.

In the meantime, I have already discovered the icon JC mentioned, so my wife and I dutifully toggle it when we want to see if we have any mail. It **, especially when you are emailing someone in realtime, but for now it keeps me from abandoning IMAP and/or the Mac Mail client.

thanks all for your input,

Rob

Sorry for the late response. Had to step away from the forum for a few days. Some of the people (present company excluded ofcourse) that post here are...stressful.

Anyway, so I get what your saying. Gmail with Mac mail works with Imap, both with idle on and off. Cox does not work with Mac mail with Imap, both with idle on and off. So the question is, and I think we might have stated this already but just making sure, Cox DOES work with Outlook with Imap, both idle on and off, right? But when you first set up a Imap account on Mac Mail, it has that box unchecked greyed out. The only reason I can see why it would check the box grey it out for a Cox Imap, and not a Gmail Imap, is it is detecting something from the server. It is not doing that detection process with Outlook with Cox Imap. So it is that detection that seems to be the difference between a Gmail Imap and a Cox Imap account in Mac Mail. So the question is what it is detecting. The problem with that question is it very well may be passive detection. What I mean is the Mac Mail client may not be sending any error or any data for Cox to look at to differ. That error or detection should be somewhere in the logs of the Mac Mail client. I think there is where we will find out answer. Then compare/contrast that to the logs from a gmail account, and we will find technical data of our culprit.

Now I don't have a Mac with OSX, only a Ipad with iOS, so I cant try it, but maybe try this?

I will set up Cox Imap on Thunderbird and compare the logs vs Gmail Imap on Thunderbird, but I don't think that will tell us as much as it will on OSX.

Yes, you are describing the differences correctly, Trikein.  And there does seem to be something coming from the COX server which triggers that greying out of the IDLE option. But the thing is, even when I un-grey it and uncheck it (by getting the setup wizard to stop running by giving it a nonsensical email to check) my non-greyed out, non-IDLE IMAP client still doesn't work. So while I think the greying-out phenomenon is indicating something is amiss, it doesn't necessarily have to do with the IDLE command - unless it is an indicator that the Apple client is stuck in a non-connecting IMAP mode that keeps it from working.

In any case, at their request I just ran the scenario in a debug kind of mode at the request of the Apple engineers and sent off the logs tonight. I expect to get some answer in a week, so before we try too many things on our own, let's see what they have to say. At least my case has reached the engineers. 

Doesn't anyone from COX monitor these forums? I would hope by now to have heard from them here.

thanks,

Rob

Well I believe Chris stated what he thought was going on, and then asked some questions. He is probably as befuddled as we are, and usually Mods don't say anything unless they have it in writing. Have to walk a weird line when your a Mod, specially one that gets paid. 

Also I can't say I disagree with him. It still comes down to a client issue. Granted its a client issue in reaction to a possible server issue, but so far we don't have any evidence that server issue is anything "broken". From all looks of it it's just how Cox implemented their Imap that doesn't play well with how Mac programmed their client, and not even all their clients. I quote: " they said that the way Cox has implemented IMAP..." Granted, taken out of context a bit, but still, I think you hit the nail right on the head.  It would be like if a certain site didn't load on Safari, or it required flash. It is usually standard practice to try to run your server to be as compatible as possible, but it is not the server's responsible to fix compatibility issues, its the people making the software. Im not done helping with the problem mind you, I am as curious as ever, but the ball seems to be in Apple's court. 

I just moved here from Wisconsin and set up Cox Internet and email. I am also having trouble with the IMAP on my mac. I had no issues before with my old Internet provider using a POP. MAC's are popular- COX should figure out how to be compatible with them before they switch over their stuff. I had text support attempt to help me and basically said they could only configure webmail and could not help me with my client email. Nice answer. This is frustrating.. I should have went with Centrytel