Does MoCA work if we use our own modem?

Splattered23 wrote:

This diagram makes it look like I would need to run cable from upstairs to downstairs on a dedicated line.

Just a oversimplification of the picture. You can use the coaxial lines in the wall as long as the splitter connecting those outlets is MoCA compatible. How many active outlets do you have in your house and what connects them?

Splattered23 wrote:

I thought it passed through the coax patch located on the outside of the house somehow.

What do you mean by "patch"? Perhaps pictures would help?

Splattered23 wrote:

I remember seeing a Netgear CM2050V modem

NO! You can only get the phone modem from Cox as it is a free lease where the modem still belongs to Cox. As in you have to return it if you cancel service or you will get charged. Cox won't add customer purchased phone modems(AKA eMTA) to your account. The reason you may want to upgrade and use your phone modem for internet is to save having to split the signal to get to the phone modem and internet modem. For every split you can get rid of increases your signal strength. To see your signal strength go to 192.168.100.1 in a browser(user;admin password;password) or see here  (page 15-16) for more info. It may or may not be a problem for you.

Im watching a video of someone setting up the MoCA connection and the coax lines they are working with all goes to i guess what i would call a patch panel (?) for coax inside their house? I could be wrong but i think my version of that is in a big grey box on the outside back of my house. Out in the elements. So that could be the end of my journey right there?

I don't know how many active coax lines i have in my house... When we moved in like 9 years Cox came out and ran a brand new line from the service pole outside up through the ceiling and into a bedroom where the modem/router reside. Almost every other room in the house has a coax drop including some along the outside of the house on the deck but its older and i've never used any of it as we only use the internet that stems from our office.

Ok i getcha on the phone modem thing, sorry :) 

Splattered23 wrote:

what i would call a patch panel

A patch panel is typically used in apartment complexes to connect lots of apartments to coaxial. I think what you are talking about is called a "house box" or enclosure. If nothing else it should have the electrical ground connector but maybe a splitter too. Try opening it up and see what is inside. If it is complex, take a picture. You need to find out how the coaxial outlets in your house are connected. Even if they aren't connected to Cox you can still use them for MoCA. That actually makes it easier since you don't have to add the MoCA filter. Hopefully the wiring is RG6  atleast and quad shield at best. If this is all too complex for you, you can hire a low voltage electrician to work it out. You would just need to buy the hardware.

Retracted post after reconsideration.

Yeah they ran a brand new line from the service pole to the box/splitter and then a new line off the splitter into the house that leads to the modem. It's the coax that runs to the downstairs bedroom that i'm more worried about age/quality-wise. Thank you for linking that coax tool btw! 

I just ran upstairs to check how it is wired in the bedroom w the modem/phone/router. The main line comes from the outside of the house up through the ceiling to the coax wall jack which then goes to the "in" port on a 3 way mocha splitter under the desk (No POE filter on this splitter or modem or anything - so no POE filters effectively on any of the runs?), from there one line goes "out" to the cable modem on top of the desk and another goes "out" to the phone modem that is under the desk. So all of that is on one line from the outside.

As for the 3 way splitter in the outside enclosure... the "in" port is connected to a POE filter with like 6 inches of coax cable off the filter that isn't actually connected to anything. The actual main line coming in is connected to one of the "out" ports and then the line into the house itself is coming off of another "out" port.

The second line i want to utilize for the 2nd mesh device is downstairs in our bedroom where i work/game most of the time. I found the coax jack behind our dresser with power beside it so i would just need to use a short coax cable to the floor below it where i set the adapter and purchase some CAT8 ethernet to run around half of the room (~20ft?) to the AP on my desk. From the AP i'd run CAT8 from its 3 lan ports to two Xboxes and my PC. 

Splattered23 wrote:

The actual main line coming in is connected to one of the "out" ports

Hmm, how is that even working then? Certainly not the "proper" way of doing it. Have you been having any problems with your phone or internet?

As for the splitter inside, when you say 3 way, do you mean 1 input and 2 outputs? A "3way" usually refers to a splitter with 3 outputs. If actually a 3way then you should be able to use the 3rd output to go to the MoCA adapter. Then replace the outside splitter with a 2way MoCA splitter (which should actually strengthen/improve your signal). The tricky part is finding the coaxial that leads to the downstair bedroom. The cable tester should help with that but you could try doing it visually.

PS. If I don't reply anymore today know that I am going through a decent snowstorm right now. Might lose power.

To be honest i've been having problems with my internet since we moved here 9 years ago... i live by a lake outside of town a bit so i expect the internet to be iffy sometimes but even when it IS working well (600+ down / 30+ up 5ghz via my phone wifi next to router) i can still get kinda high ping and latency. 2.4Ghz is slower but has lower latency and doesn't show packet loss via my Xbox even downstairs, while 5Ghz is faster but then has higher latency and packet loss even on devices upstairs somewhat close to the router. 

I often experience annoying but mild rubber banding in games like COD/Apex/Fortnite etc when playing online. I've had multiple technicians (both contractors and actual cox techs) come out to look over everything from the pole to the modem over and over again. Some tweak this or that, change out some parts, and this is where i currently sit.

That's partly why i'm down this rabbit hole at the moment, internet has been acting up a bit again even through hard reboots etc and cox online shows no issues in my area. Firmwares are up to date. So i figured maybe a new router/mesh system and possibly modem could help fix it since its all about 5 years old? But now that we're talking through this maybe my home isn't wired correctly coming in from the pole? Or putting a POE filter somewhere in the setup could help and i wouldn't even need new equipment till wifi 7 is more mainstream? I mean if i could just get a consistent connection without higher latency ping and packet loss on 5Ghz then i'd prob be ok for now.

Sorry - for the splitter inside it has 1 input and 3 outputs. One output goes to the cable modem, the second output goes to the cisco phone modem, and then the third output has a weird piece screwed into it that is sorta long and all metal that slides back and forth a bit when you pull on it. No idea what it is or why it's there? But that output doesn't go to a cable.

Splattered23 wrote:

I've had multiple technicians

Really? Multiple techs and no one thought to replace the splitter in the house box with a coupler? I think that is why the 2 outputs of the coaxial are being used, to basically turn the splitter into a coupler. However the open ports on that splitter act as a antenna, picking up any noise in the area. Even if you don't install MoCA, I suggest replacing the splitter with a coaxial coupler. You might be able to pick one up at a Cox store but any hardware store or Walmart should have them. However if you go with MoCA you should replace it with a 2way MoCA splitter.

As for the splitter inside, that is good. Sounds like they have a terminator on the unused leg of the splitter. You should be able to remove it and use that leg for your 1st MoCA adapter. If it looks different, look for any label on it or take a picture? Either way, as long as it is removable, it shouldn't be a problem.

Could you post your signal levels from the modem? I am curious what the signal levels are now since you would be adding a 2 way splitter to the system, which would lower your signal by 3.5dB(half). I posted about this before, but retracted it when I remembered you had a splitter in the house box already. However now that I know how it was hooked up(as a coupler), it changes things.

Good, looks strong enough for a 3.5dB drop. That would put your downstream around +2dB and upstream around 46dB. If you would want to improve that you can always swap out the Cisco phone modem(DPQ3212?) for a TM3402. Notice this is a phone modem and NOT a gateway(modem/router combo) so it will work with your router as long as it is provisioned for data too. If you did this you could replace the 3 way splitter inside with a 2 way which would make up for the 2 way splitter you would be putting outside. I understand if you want to use your own modem but just thought I would mention if incase you want to keep your signal as strong as possible.

PS. I notice you have 8 upstream channels and no upstream OFDMA. Hopefully you get upgraded soon. What does your upload cap at? 32Mbps?

Thank you! I think i want to stick to my own modem so i'm not forever paying to rent theirs.. 

When you say you hope i get upgraded soon do you mean my internet service plan? Cause i'm already on the max i can get for my area. I get up in the 30s on my upload usual... to be honest i'm not sure what i cap out at? Seems like i have definitely gotten higher than 32Mbps. ATT Fiber up to 4 or 5GB down is close to my street but it will probably be a really long time till i have access to that if ever haha

I just checked on my Xbox right now on the 2Ghz band and i'm seeing 92Mbps download, 2Mbps upload and 1% packet loss with kinda higher latency. Sometimes packet loss can be much higher than this too.

What could be causing these issues? Just because i live outside of town by the lake? I'm wondering if getting a new MoCA setup with the new XT12 hardware would even improve any of this?

I almost want to move back to town just so i have better internet haha this is very frustrating.

Splattered23 wrote:

I think i want to stick to my own modem so i'm not forever paying to rent theirs.. 

That's the thing, just like you don't have to pay for your current Cisco modem, you don't have to pay for the upgrade. It's free! Comes with your phone service. The only downside is you have to return it if you ever cancel service. It's the gateways(modem/router combo) that cost money.

As for the upgrade, I meant to the Cox infrastructure in your area. Newly upgraded areas get 1/10th upload to download. So if you get 500Mbps download you would get up to 50Mbps upload. Gigabit gets 100Mbps which is the current cap. To get that speed you need a upstream OFDMA channel.

As for ATT fiber, it's fiber which is a big plus, but the downside is it's harder to use your own equipment. They make you use their ONT/Router combo, which can be put into IP passthrough with your own router but some people have problems.

If you want to see what your network is bottlenecking and what is the ISP(Cox) then try moving your Xbox(or better yet a laptop) and test on a wired connection direct to the modem. Then test wired to your router. Don't forget to power cycle the modem each time after changing what it's connected to. Using your Xbox will never be a fully accurate test as your going through XBL servers. For example, I get 500/500Mbps on fiber and I only get 458/77Mbps on the Xbox. That is on a wired connection to my router too. Wireless will decrease that even more. I think it's the packet loss which is causing your problem and I wonder if that is there when you connect direct to modem/router.

BTW. Do you have the ports forwarded for XBL in your router? I think most Asus routers have something called "Open NAT" which automatically forwards your ports once you pick your device/game. Not that would fix your packet loss but it may help overall.

I just did some more research into MoCA 2.5 and found out it uses 1,125MHz ~ 1,675MHz frequency pass, so any splitter that covers that will do. You don't need the 5-2300 splitter. Something like this will do for inside, assuming you don't upgrade the phone modem. 

Thank you VERY much for your help with all of this! I just read that Wifi 7 actually officially passed certification this Monday... soooo i'm thinking i am going to hold off on my Wifi 6/E mesh and MoCA purchase and deal with my latency and ping issues a bit longer. Probably around summer time i will revisit this and pick up a new Wifi 7 mesh system and probably still set up this MoCA connection so all of this will still be very useful information.